I have read the book, I agree with the data, and I've chosen where to live. Now what do I do? I have my list of criteria to look for in property, but how do I find the ideal property? I hesitate to enlist the services of a realtor for a number of reasons but I don't know where to turn. How do I find out what is available?
Can anyone relate to this dilemma? If so, please respond and tell me how you solved it. I'm sure there are some useful tips on how to find some good land.
Homesteader,
To get an idea of some of the property available in your chosen area, and current prices, one relatively easy thing to do is to get a current newspaper from the nearest town. Your local library should have the _Gale Directory of Publications and Broadcast Media_, which will list newspapers and addresses/phone numbers, town by town and state by state. Some papers will send a single issue for free, most charge a relatively small amount. Usually Sunday papers have more ads.
Some internet publications are aimed specifically at people seeking rural acreage- see http://www.hpj.com/cfdocs/land/members.htm for example. There are a bunch more sites- go to your favorite search engine (try http://www.infind.com) and search for "rural real estate" -the quotes tell the search engine to look for the phrase. That will get you some more keyboard-accessible leads. You might try the phrase "retreat property" as well.
A scouting trip to the area may be in order- depending on circumstances that may be the best way to begin gathering information. Being there in person will let you actually see the area and get a feel for the people that you won't get any other way.
Good luck!
Homesteader,
I agree with Anonymous completely--going there for a general scouting trip is the best thing to do. My husband and I recently took a scouting trip to the area we're most interested in, and learned more than any research online or in books could ever tell us. The people were very friendly, and we found specific areas we're interested in for looks, microclimates, and other factors. Talk to the people that live there. We were lucky, and ran into a farmer's market, where the vendors were more than happy to tell us all about different areas and some of the advantages and drawbacks of trying to grow things around there--a unique perspective from those who do that kind of thing for a living. It's helpful to know things like that when you're considering self-sufficiency in the long run.
The most important thing, once you have applied the rational criteria listed in the book, visited various places, is to check your feelings about what place you feel most "at home" in. Most people will feel drawn to a place that really matches their true needs. This is especially applicable to the various sites you are considering. Be sure and visit some of the neighbors close to your proposed site. One bad set of neighbors or children can turn heaven to hell. Obviously, you can't get to know the neighbors in an in depth way, but watch for real danger signs--extreme punkish bad attitudes.
Joel Skousen
I haven't read any material lately on relocation. However, I do see the need to prepare for possible relocation, and I have traveled extensively during my lifetime. I currently believe that the best approach for me is flexibility, i.e. traveling light. I want to be able to move and do so quickly without the burden of hauling or defending a household.
I haven't read the book but I'm interested in what it might contain. Does this book talk about more specific criteria in choosing a location? For instance, what makes high ground a good or bad location or what to consider if you want to build underground? Should you build on top of the hill or build right between 2 hills? Suggestions on floor plans, how to build in small enclosed gardens in your windows. (ie grow food and have sunlight.Plus protected from bugs.)
I got the book and checked maps for topo and major traffic indicators. I marked 3 or 4 areas in other states and called their chamber of commerces. They sent more info. Then I subscribed to newspaper in towns that caught my eye. Remember they won't always tell you what's bad about their town so don't consider no crime reports as 'no crime'.
Aspects of areas started to emerge that I liked or didn't like. Keeping in mind strategic aspects all the time. I drove to states and watched the land coming and going on different routes. I'd go alone or grab anyone relative that wasn't working because they were part of the plan too.
I eliminated places and noticed others to look into. I wrote realtors & called them on the phone. Then it was time to check out specific properties. None were found.
We (spouse was on this trip) drove out of the once likely area disappointed by a couple of personal priorities that couldn't be met. Wandered and meandered for a couple more days and exhausted we hit an interesting area.
Two days later we'd found the right place in that area. People ask how we found the area, we say we just ended up there. Everyone does it differently.
But we had finally made the commitment, sold home, everything in storage and then just went with the flow. Was not what you'd expect us to do. There was a helping hand behind it. We wish you luck.
If you're supposed to do it and you have all your ducks lined up as best as you can, it will probably begin to unfold. And it won't be what you expected. Expect it to be different in lots of ways. But mostly it will be better than you dreamed. You'll sleep better at night and you'll have one less thing to do to be ready for the rest of your life.
Also, don't over spend. Make sure you are not in debt. Get a vacation cabin with others if that is all you can afford. The added stress of debt is not what you are trying to accomplish.
To Toshiro,
You've got to get the book and read it. This book, in combination with the other book "The Secure Home" will answer all your questions.
These two books were a REAL eye opener and are invaluable in terms of getting started and will no doubt serve to give you savings later in terms of time and money. You still need to do all the legwork and brainwork, oftentimes alone. People will laugh at you, but I'll get to laugh later.
I am happy to announce that I am just about able to leave Kookafornia, and wisely so. I have a final job interview later this week and if I get it, I'll be looking to Northeast Texas within a few months.
Our forefathers put up food and supplies in the times of plenty and it was a common form of 'insurance' back then. Nowadays I cringe at what we call value and insurance (useless pieces of paper -- they're even too slick to use as.... well you know.)
We are going to need lots of self sufficient, liberty minded people if we are to see our offspring grow strong and free.
To Toshiro,
A better question is, "What DON'T Joel's books contain?" They are absolutely loaded with detailed information on a variety of important subjects. I have all of Joel Skousen's books - some of the best money I ever spent! You won't find this kind of advice anywhere else.
I'm also wondering about tax laws in different states. My ideal would be to live in a state without state income tax but live very close to a border of a state without sales tax. And also, non totalitarian gun laws are also of great concern.
Toshiro
To Toshiro, yes those are all points to consider. but all things change and you also need to know if a particular state is leaning towards more taxes and harsher gun regulations. Once you settle in, you need to be active to keep that area from becoming more federalized. So, no matter where you may live the politics are in flux or at risk.
If environmentalists and the federalies take hold of a community, instigated by coal sludge (current example) entering water shed, that area is in jeapardy of evacuation.
The bottom line is, be vigilant, aware and keep nudging your neighbor to awaken them.
Relocation is a long process. You have to get started and keep at it. My family went rural in 1998 motivated largely by y2k. I was working full time and my wife was a homemaker and homeschooler. Here's what the timeline looks like.
1997 - Buying bulk food supplies to beat the y2k rush, consideration of different areas and visits to some.
Jan - Mar 1998 Prayer and fasting prior to serious real estate searching. Began repairs and spiffing up on current house prior to putting it up for sale.
Mar - June 1998 Searching for suitable real estate within about 5-7 counties.
Jun 1998 Located a nearly perfect property for our needs.
Jun - Sep 1998 Began checking out the property, home, water supply, neighbors, etc. prior to closing on the purchase. Sold suburban house and moved to the new rural place.
Sep 1998 - Mar 1999 Getting settled in, including building an addition on the new house (it wasn't large enough for our family).
Mar - Dec 1999 (and ongoing) Working on the property, including clearing away junk, establishing garden areas, clearing 2 acres of light woods, planting fruit trees and bushes. Acquiring fuel tanks, buying and storing fuel. Etc., etc.
Jan 1999 - present Joined local church and local homeschool coop. Getting to know people and getting accepted by them as church and homeschool leaders. By now we are pretty well established and known in our area and could work with local people in case of serious trouble.
Total time, from when we chose a specific area and began serious searching, until we were well enough established to feel pretty secure: 2.5 years.
Don't delay.
Having about 100 acres between me and anybody else is something I've always wanted to have. The problem with that kind of existence is employment. I'm a database developer working hard to increase my skill set. Telecommuting isn't real big right now but it is slowly getting more and more accepted. Telecommuting will give the ability to work from home so I can be there for my children and live in the place I wish.
Money is of course the main, limiting factor. If I spend all my money getting to the location, I won't be able to keep it very long. So Alonzo, you're right, it is a long process.
I have been working with Militias in Texas for
the last few years and interest remains high
as people see that the NWO agenda moves forward.
Yugoslavia is being used right now as a training
ground for troops in the art of disarming the
population. Once a major war breaks out (or other calamity) then these same operations will
be conducted here in the U.S. by the same troops.
On the land front, it is more than just survivability for individuals and their families.
Networks have to be in place to conduct "counter
operations." Once mop up begins by UN troops
as is now happening in the Balkans, then single
family retreats will become sitting ducks. That
is why militias are important. It is these networks that will rejoin the fight to restore
the liberties of America.
The militia "movement" is still strong and the whole Timothy McVeigh affair was a side show.
Now real Americas will have to continue with the
tasks at hand.
Many Mormons in high places have compromised themsleves with the same government that sent troops to Utah to take on Brigham Young. Had
Brigham Young came to Texas (he did send scouts
to meet with Sam Houston in fact) then perhaps
the whole story of America would be different today. In reality Sam Houston came to Texas and
we won the short war of Independence against Mexico to become a free country. Brigham Young
went on to Utah and finally gave into the Federal Government on EVERY single account including the
reversal on plural marriage. Texas went on to
join the "Union" through the controversial
"Joint Resolution of Annexation" but then later
reversed itself with the Civil War joining on
the side of the Confederacy.
To make a long story short, the sad fact is that
the whole "Mormon Effort" has continually compromised itself when it comes to Federal Jurisdiction. Furthermore, the Federal Jurisdiction under the leadership of people like
Hoover, Roosevelt, Clinton and Bushes is to futher
the NWO globalist agenda. That agenda includes
the disarming and destruction of the United States in favor of the global bureaucratic
dictatorship that is instore for us.
Go ahead and find your dream house in the woods,
but a real fight looms ahead. And dont complain
when our citizen soldiers fight it out in your
backyard while you hide.
RM
Dallas
Dear RM:
There is something in what you say about single family retreats being sitting ducks. I have had similar thoughts many times. One man, a wife and several children is not a military organization. Take out the man, in most cases, and resistance ends. But, nothing is perfect, and if we are dispersed in out-of-the-way places around the country, we at least make it less convenient for the other side when the roundup starts and hopefully have some nearby hills to head for. Once you become a known target, you can't plan on staying put anyway.
On the other hand, I have heard from our host and others that militias have been severely infiltrated by government agents. There is the risk that joining a militia would amount to turning your name over to the feds as a priority target. In certain areas, e.g Idaho, it is said that some militia groups are more government agents than bona fide members. We know that the Russian MO is to allow compromised resistance organizations to exist as magnets to collect and control opposition. This strategy was also addressed by George Orwell in "1984".
The tough question for lovers of liberty is how to organize and act together without thereby giving ourselves away. In a world where many people do not even know their next door neighbors and many do not even have relatives in the same state, it's going to be tough. Anything we do must be based on tested personal relationships, which are becoming scarce. It's the old question: Who Do You Trust? This is the down side of our hyper-mobile society.
Anyone have any other ideas of how to overcome this problem?
I suppose by the time we are cold, wet, and miserable, hungry, and all grubby, hiding in the bushes, maybe all the government agents would of gone home by then to their cushy offices and free cafeterias?
It wont be easy to know whom to trust and the idea of allowing a relatively insignificant amount of resistance to exist as 'bait' is a dangerous ploy we all need to be aware of.
The best organization is NO organization per se, but some form of 'passing the word' would be necessary.
Big cities are nearly a total write-off, but in smaller towns and communities 'passing the word' would be a lot easier to do amongst trusted and established community members.
At any rate, holing up and defending a fixed location is risky and dangerous when the opposition is better armed (mortars, cannon, gas, etc.), they will just stand off out of reach and beat you up with whatever they got.
Stay mobile with loose organization. I wont say it all in a public forum, but it is easier than it appears if one does not fall into all the standard traps.
The onset of trouble will find the less well-versed in trouble first. The wiser ones will be the ones to see the light of many days.
Ed McGhee wrote: "At any rate, holing up and defending a fixed location is risky and dangerous when the opposition is better armed (mortars,
cannon, gas, etc.), they will just stand off out of reach and beat you up with whatever they got."
Yes, and the book TEOTWAWKI made that point very graphically with it's "tale of two retreats".
This is why our host recommends an escape route and a secondary retreat not used as a residence. That would be nice! But even if all you have is a map and a passing knowledge of the woods and hills around you, maybe a cache of survival items away from your home, it would stand you in good stead.
I'll go on record as agreeing with Ed on this one. The best way to know who to trust is to simply know your support in the first place.
Survival "communities" are definately not the way to go. However, a closely knit group with a pre-arranged destination supported by all concerned is a viable option.
First of all you need to pick a place that you wont have a severely hard time living off the land where the temperature wont kill you.
Secondly, establishing a plan, several plans actually is needed to cover the situations of daily life, escape, etc. Knowing what to store and for what reason is going to be very important. The art of caching is a critical skill that will be needed along with many others.
Get to know some like-minded people well in advance, I mean really get to K.N.O.W. them. After a while you would be surprised to find yourself in a circle of like minded friends that can meet in one place with all their weekend camping equipment at a days notice. All the people in the group will derive their safety and strength from the loose association of friends knowing that each is seriously committed to the benefit of the members of the circle.
I said it somewhere before once, that you need at least 6 people. Because there is a lot of chores to do ala 1800's (or earlier !) such as hauling water, hoeing the garden, picking beans, hand laundry, firewood, etc. and you must give at least a day of rest a week long term, and provide a modicum of security watch, you need 6 people as a bare minimum. Granted, too many is bad, but there is a right number in there somewhere but you get the idea. Just make sure everyone comes loaded down to the axles with all the right stuff.
Only the desperate or foolish will go it alone.
You know the Y2K problem should give you a little knowledge using good old hindsight. Ponder about who was with you in you're thinking and maybe that could give you a vague idea on things. Sort of like a practice run. I know one thing, keeping a low profile will be important and when problems start it will immediately become evident just who stands where.
How do you find Like-Minded Folks in the relocation issue? It is not as easy as it seems. Just because you have people at church, or so called 'patriotic' gun owners, or 'conservative' fellow neighbors, doesn't mean they will do what is needed when this all happens. I know plenty of gun people who I would never trust. As with church folk, try talking about this stuff with most of them, you will get nowhere quick. Does anyone have any specific recommendations to finding like minded citizens? Or does it depend on where you live in America now? Thank you all, and God Bless America.
I know. Talk is cheap, isnt it? When you find these special people, which are probably 1% or less of the general population, you will know. Keep meeting people and dangle the subject and watch their reactions but dont give out your personal critical information, of course.
WTK: HAARP & AREA 51... U.S. High Tech Defense???
Ok, so if we're a future target, and the government thinks so enough to build underground shelters for officials, then aren't they thinking about a serious plan of defense? I know HAARP has been discussed as a possible defense shield/weapon, also how about Area 51? If the government has this kind of Super high technology, then why can't it defend america right now against missile attacks???
Any Ideas? Or will the government just allow America to melt down when it's no longer useful for it's purposes..
For those looking for last days, patriotic folks, you might look into Idaho County, ID. No building permits (though some have tried). Mildest climate in Idaho. Only drawback is that 85% is owned by Feds and employment is rather uncertain. Closest real town is Lewiston (30,000),50 to 100 miles away.
We just made a trip through Idaho and spent a little time in Salmon. I was incredulous at the knowledge level of everyone I talked with. At first we got the "welcome tourist" conversation about the water controls and the presence of forest service personnel, when we asked. Light, friendly conversation.
All I had to do was say something knowledgeable like, "Do you think this could be about confiscation of private property?" That one comment opened floodgates of information every time. People are AWARE! Later, at the motel, same conversation with the man and woman who owned it. I said, "Are you two exceptions, or is everyone here aware of what's going on?" Their reply was, "Everyone is aware".
But the federal presence is there. Perhaps that can happen anywhere. One person told us sarcastically that "The forest service people wear big sidearms and take martial arts because our fishermen are so dangerous!" I suspect that it isn't the fishermen that they think could be dangerous, but the locals! We were told that, with the introduction of wolves to the area, they are killing the young deer and elk and will eventually destroy the hunting which, they think, is planned to ultimately move people out of the Salmon area.
'Course I don't know if the local people have this right. Just sharing what we were told. But there does seem to be a different, more aware breed of American in Idaho.
Our family has spent the past 23 yrs. in suburbia St.Louis, Missouri. My husband took a new job in Salt Lake City and is out there now, staying with friends, while the kids and I get the house ready to sell. Fortunately, the kids and I took a little trip out there recently and put on the brakes!!!! Not our idea of the place to be!!!!! Took a side trip up to Idaho,(one of our older children lives with her family in Rexburg), and started to feel better. We've begun a search now of Idaho but with the job in SLC it becomes more of a challenge. We've always wanted our own bussiness, so are considering that option, if we can find an area where we could find a way to support our family. We will have a little start up $$$$ from the sale of our house in MO, but I don't know how far that'll take us. Any thoughts on good locations or bussiness ideas are welcome.
Thanks in advance. On the move.
Some of you whine about the stupidest crap.
In my case, this is one of the most intriguing threads as I will be retiring and moving back to the US. Although I did not read Joel's books yet, I was able to narrow down my search to Id, Or, Wa and BC. I will be doing on location in-depth survey starting next month for the most of the summer and plan to post my findings here.
Referring to Angelique's post regarding Salmon, ID. I was also there with my son two years ago on our way from California to Montana. Had exactly the same expereince. At first conversation with locals is light--the weather, tourist spots--whatever. But just make one strategic comment that tips them off that you are aware and the flood gates open. It was so obvious that I tried it with several people and the level of knowledge was the same. It's really incredible, in this day of American ignorance. It would be interesting to try to find out why these people are so different. Maybe they have a decent newspaper in their town. Now wouldn't THAT be rare!!!
Arlean
Edited for length by Webmaster.
Retreats by Mel Tappan (Tappan on Survival Extract)
Read the full text here.
Chapter 3 RETREATING
The concept most fundamental to realistic long-term disaster preparedness is retreating; having a safe place to go in order to avoid the concentrated violence destined to erupt in the cities -- a place where, in addition to owning greater safety during the crisis interval, one can reasonably expect to generate subsistence for an indefinite period thereafter. Despite its central importance to the business of staying alive in the aftermath of a pervasive disaster, such as a monetary collapse or a nuclear exchange, this aspect of the survival equation is not widely understood.